Joel Whelan

In this episode, Joel shares his journey from growing up in a Christian home to embracing a deeply personal faith in Jesus Christ. He reflects on the power of confession, overcoming anxiety, discovering a passion for evangelism, and how the life and music of Keith Green challenged him to live wholeheartedly for Christ. Joel also offers practical insights on sharing the gospel with grace and truth, encouraging listeners to embrace the adventure of following Jesus—even when the road is difficult.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 1:20

Well, hey, welcome everybody to Fly and Leaves. Great to have you with us today for another one of our podcasts. My name is Rick Berg. I'm your host, and we're looking again at talking with somebody very special, another young adult living in this restless world, following Jesus. And uh like to welcome Joe Whaling onto the podcast. Welcome, Joel.

SPEAKER_01 1:41

Thanks so much for having me.

SPEAKER_02 1:42

Great to have you here. And uh it's a beautiful morning here in Cochrane, Alberta, where this podcast is taking place. And uh we're thankful for God in our life and for the message of Jesus and the opportunity to follow him. Joel, I'm gonna get right into your story there a little bit. As we know, this podcast is kind of introducing some young adults who will be coming back on the podcast over a period of few months. And the whole kind of idea is sharing the journey. You know, what happens from this point on? What is God gonna be doing in your life in the next couple months? But obviously, he's done a lot in your life so far. So take us back a little bit to your faith journey and and uh how Jesus has become important in your life.

SPEAKER_01 2:23

Yeah, well, I so I was raised in a Christian home and kind of always had the Bible being taught to me and my brothers. And I would say probably when I was about 11 years old, I guess I don't have really a date that I could say, oh, Jesus saved my life completely, and I knew I was his from that moment on, but he was kind of always there and a part of my life. But I think where I started to take him seriously and really pray for myself and seek him in that way was probably around when I was 11. I had this. My dad had talked to me and my brothers about confession and that being a part of our faith. And I remember just thinking as a 11-year-old, I already knew you know things that we've done that they're just on our conscience that were like, Oh, I don't feel good about that. But I used to think, why on earth would you ever tell somebody the wrong things you've done and expose that? Right. Right. But I I kind of had this moment with my dad where I just confessed my sin to him when I was 11. And I walked out of that, it was just in his room, and I thought, man, is this what it feels like to be forgiven? And I had this like complete burden just taken off of me. And so that was a real marking moment for me where I was like, wow, I want to live in this um feeling. And then kind of from there it progressed, and I started reading the Bible more and just trying to figure out, okay, what is this that I'm supposed to be, you know, what does Jesus teach and what what does the Bible really say? And I also had kind of a time of anxiety in my life where I was like, for example, it was when I was about 16, I was like even scared to leave the house because I just had like panic attacks and anxiety, and I was just like almost this like cloud of despair over my life. Even though I had had these moments with with the Lord, it was kind of like, okay, Lord, I know that you're there, but like, do you really care for me specifically? Right. And I, yeah, I can so sympathize with people who wrestle with that stuff because it was a it was really marking for me. And then as I just kept digging into the word and I had a pretty cool experience at a summer camp where it wasn't like flashy or like I saw some major sign or wonder, but it was just this powerful time in worship where I was never raised, for example, with like you know, dancing or raising your hands or anything. I was just kind of mutzing along, you know, in worship. But I was like, all right, I'm raising my hands, I'm you're worth worth everything. And so this revolutionary act of lifting my hands in worship. And but I had this moment where I just felt like this, I think it was the Holy Spirit looking back, but it was sort of like this moment of like, I haven't given him my complete everything in my life. And it was so weird because you know, you're a 15-year-old guy, you know, I was playing video games during that time and just spending a lot of time. I wasn't like addicted, but just spent a lot of time. And so I knew in that moment, no one told me, I was just like, I've got to quit video games, it's over.

SPEAKER_02 5:13

Like it's 15.

SPEAKER_01 5:14

Yeah, at 15. And so I just, it was like the Holy Spirit told me that, and I was like, all right, I'm done. So I just gave it up, and but that freed me up to, you know, read the word more and spend more time with friends and just doing things that I felt like were constructive to my faith rather than like pulling me away. And then kind of where it progressed from there to the next big step was about 17, 18. I never really like actively shared my faith with anybody, and I never I didn't see a lot of people around me, you know, in church settings doing that either. I know there are lots, but I just, you know, I didn't see it. And then for me, I was like, oh, that would be a great honor to tell someone about Jesus. I think it's the most important thing is that people believe in him. But I thought you can't just go around explaining that to people and telling them, you know, going so deep with strangers and whatnot.

SPEAKER_00 6:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:02

But I saw this evangelist in Southern California on YouTube just having these conversations with random people that he'd met at the university. And I was like, what in the world? Who's this guy who just goes around talking to people? And so I watched a few more of his videos, and the Holy Spirit convicted me. I was like, Oh, I bet you if I tried, I could probably do what this guy's doing. Yeah, and then I a few more videos, and I thought, oh my goodness, I'm supposed to do this. And from that moment on, uh, me and my older brother, we just decided, like, we were 17, 18 at that time. And I said, Hey man, like we should like go and try to tell people about Jesus Christ and share the gospel. And he was like, he was right in, he was kind of at a similar point in his faith, my older brother. And we just started going once a week to the local malls and just trying to share the gospel, and we were terrified, absolutely just terrified. But we we learned, we we kind of like we'd go out dragging our heels, and then we'd come back just jumping for joy. And we realized it was kind of a fear we needed to overcome. But from that moment on, I realized that Jesus has a plan for each and every one of us, and he actually has a will and a desire that he wants to accomplish in the world. And it wasn't just like, oh, let's, you know, I'll be this, or I'll be I'll just play volleyball, or I'll do the things that I like and avoid sin. Because I think that's the way I was living my faith and just kind of living for myself, doing what I wanted, but just trying to keep it clean in a sense and like not sin.

SPEAKER_00 7:27

Right.

SPEAKER_01 7:27

But then at that moment I realized, oh, Jesus came, it says he came to seek and save that which was lost, and he wants us to be like him as disciples. And so that was a big, I think the biggest change which led to kind of where I am now is just being involved with what I think the Lord wants us to do in the world as believers. So yeah, it's kind of an overview.

SPEAKER_02 7:48

Yeah, thanks. One of the interesting things that you talked about when you began sharing your story was this whole idea of confession, you know, and it seems to me that a lot of people in this world have trouble with wrapping their heart around that they are sinners. And you know, we don't like to kind of go there in our lives. No, we don't, and yet we know that's the gospel message that Jesus came for lost who are sinners. And and so how do you how do you approach that topic with people in your life when people don't want to talk about sin or they don't want to, I guess, maybe recognize? I know that the spirit convicts us of our sin, but I've always struggled personally with kind of how do you enter in that conversation without I guess feeling like you don't you don't want to judge people, but the truth is that we're all we've fallen short of the glory of God, right? You know, and so do you do you as you go to evangelize, do you like do you talk about sin at all? Or do you talk about those kind of things? And how do people, if you do, how do people respond to being told that they're sinners?

SPEAKER_01 9:01

Right. Yeah, I think it's so interesting. I kind of learned this technique from a guy named Ray Comfort, down that's that evangelist in Southern California. But just yesterday, I was down at Prince's Island Park just playing some music, and a guy came over and we started chatting because he was also a musician. And what I like to do with people is to make the gospel make more sense because the gospel is good news. Like, you know, Jesus came to save us from our sins, and he said that you know, repentance and forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in his name. And so I was like, okay, repentance and forgiveness of sins, that needs to be talked about then in order for people to even receive that.

SPEAKER_00 9:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:38

And so with this gentleman yesterday, I uh I like to do, I just asked them, I like to start with a question, like, hey, God forbid, I'm like, but if you were to die today, do you think that you would be on your way to heaven if there is one? Like, are you a good person? Do you consider yourself to be a good person? And this guy's like, you know what? Yeah, overall I do. And mostly everybody you talk to is always, like you said, we don't like to think of ourselves as sinners. And so I just take him through four questions. I said, Are you? I said, Are you okay, man? If I ask you a couple questions just to see if that's true, he's like, Oh yeah, man, fire away. And so I just told him, I said, Man, how many lies have you told in your whole life? And he goes, Oh man, I've told a lot of lies, right? And all of a sudden he's sitting there, but it's kind of fun, you know, you're just banding back and forth. And I said, So what do you call someone who tells lies? And he sat there and he was going, Man, he's like, it's really hard to admit this about our ourselves. He literally told me, he's like, Man, I said, I said, it's harder to admit that about ourselves, isn't it? He goes, Yeah, it sure is. He says, But a liar, right? And so I was like, Have you ever stolen something, even if it's small in your whole life? He goes, I have. And he said, What do you call yourself? What do you call someone who steals? He said, A thief. And he's starting to, you can see his understanding coming to the realization, man, I've lied, I've stolen. I I like to ask if people have taken God's name in vain. He's like, Yeah, I know I shouldn't do that, but I do it all, you know, a lot. And and then the last question I ask is, uh, Jesus said, if you even look at someone with lust, yeah, you've already committed adultery with them in your heart. And uh he goes, Oh yeah, I've done that plenty of times. And says, bro, I'm not judging you, right? He's like, but I've but you just told me that you're a lying, thieving, blasphemous, adultery at heart. And this is all generally taken pretty well. And he was like, Man, that's crazy. And said, So do you know what God did? So that you know, if you're guilty, you know, you'd end up in hell. And he's like, Yeah, that's pretty serious. And I said, Does that concern you? He goes, It does a little bit. And so now all of a sudden you've kind of prepared their heart that makes sense for grace. And I was able to explain to him how Jesus came to die in his place to forgive him of that sin, because now he knows specifically why Christ came for him instead of just this general, like, but I'm a pretty good person. Why would he come die for me? Like, I don't need that to get to heaven. So it really makes the gospel make a lot more sense, I think. And he was like, Man, this happened for a reason. He's like, I don't normally stop and talk to people, but today I felt like, yeah, this is gonna this means something. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:03

That's really cool. It's it's kind of just it's a level playing field, right? Right. I mean, all of us that we all are sinners.

SPEAKER_01 12:09

That's right.

SPEAKER_02 12:10

Yeah, those exempt here. We've all done those four things to a certain extent. And yeah, you know, one of the things that I know that has impacted you, and maybe this ties into the the the law gospel message. And I think sometimes we we miss out on the law, you know, we want to lighten up right things and just kind of go to God's love and what he's done for us, right? Which is the good news. But Keith Green is one of those individuals that somehow has come into your life, you know, his music and his message. And it seems to me that that message is very similar to what you've just spoken of, you know, laying out both the law and presenting the gospel. Tell me a little bit about, you know, I mean, Keith Green is an old guy music from a long, long time ago. And you're you know, you're a young adult. So why were you how were you drawn into that music and why do you think it's perhaps a good message for today's world?

SPEAKER_01 13:10

Yeah, so obviously, so Keith Green, if anyone doesn't know who he is, he's like 70s sort of Ellen John style piano, and it's kind of like I wouldn't say tacky, but even just the sound, it's so different from what people listen to today. And I wasn't necessarily drawn to like the music and the you know the sound, but it was the a message I actually had, I don't even know if it was accidentally, but I downloaded some song onto my Spotify playlist, and I kind of sat there for a long time. I kind of always skipped past it. And then one day I was like, What's this song doing here? And it's a song by him called Asleep in the Light. And so one day I'm like, What's this doing here? So I like tap on it and I listen to it. I'm going, Oh my goodness, it was like this is like convicting. And it's a song about, you know, the church kind of being asleep and not doing what God's called it to do in the world and reaching the lost. And so I was like, man, I've like hardly hear anybody write music like this anymore. And I think it's because, you know, when you're full of the spirit of God, as I believe Keith was, it's not necessarily the music that even speaks to you, it can be the spirit behind what's being said and the message that's communicated. Yeah. Because that message is the gospel message, it's timeless. So it can be communicated through different mediums. But if it's the spirit of God moving behind something, there's no time expiration date on that music. And so I really um was challenged. So I I my mom actually got me. I was talking to my parents about hey, this guy, Keith Green, and my mom went and got me the bless her, you know, she got me a book about his life. There's a, you know, a kind of a autobiography or his autobiography when you write it yourself, or I don't know. It was written by his wife anyway, and read that book, and I was so challenged by the life he lived. You know, this was a guy who was like renting out seven houses and inviting these random strangers and homeless people to come and live with them and disciple. And I was going, who is like nobody does this anymore? And so I was just so challenged by his music, and I started listening to more and more, and then it started to shape the faith that I wanted to have because I was thinking, this guy really believes what he's reading in the Bible, and I had just not seen that modeled a lot in my life, and that was very confronting, you know, when you're, I guess, confronted with reality and with truth of who Jesus Christ really is and what he taught. And then you you can kind of look at it and see the discrepancies of where we've come, yeah, generally, as like you know, Western church, and I go, man, like he was one who stirred people on to really obey and follow Jesus Christ, not like what we've done just as people who, you know, claim the name of Christ. So yeah, it's been continues to impact my life, his work to this day.

SPEAKER_02 15:50

So you had uh an opportunity to uh share that music recently at a concert and worship service. What was that experience like for you?

SPEAKER_01 16:00

Yeah, it was it was really special. We uh so we put on a little just a little worship evening or we played some video clips from his life, and in between we would play, you know, we learned a bunch of his music, a number of fellow musicians, and we just kind of put this this evening together. And it was so special because I do love to preach God's word, and I like want to share, you know, he's got this one, the one song, Oh Lord, you're beautiful. He says, I want to take your word and shine it all around, but first help me just to live it, Lord. And and so I love to take God's word and shine it around, but what's so easy to do that with Keith Green's music, because it's all the gospel and it's all basically from the word of God. And so we, yeah, we got to preach a little bit of the gospel in between songs, talk about the songs, and kind of share the story of his life, but also ultimately point to Jesus Christ. But I just felt so honored in it in some way to even because he's an older brother, right? He died at 28. I'm 26. And I just thought, man, what an honor to be able to, in a sense, even honor and play my older brother's music, but at the same time, ultimately, you know, point to Jesus Christ because that's what he would have wanted as well. And and it's ultimately about glorifying the Lord. So yeah, it was a really special evening.

SPEAKER_02 17:15

You know, one of the things I loved about Keith Green, and again, he said he's so young, you know, he had like what, maybe seven years of Christian life or something like that. And yet he just dug so deep into God's word. I was saying to uh to to Erica, my wife, that I think all this guy did was like read his Bible and write music.

SPEAKER_00 17:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:36

Because he was prolific in those years. And I know that you love God's word too. Is there any scriptures or words that you've been reading recently that might you know encourage or challenge us today as we're listening on in the podcast? Any stories that you've read?

SPEAKER_01 17:54

Yeah, I I kind of recently, you know, there's time in my life where I try to read through the whole Bible and in different parts here and there, but like what I find my you know, myself drawn to a lot of times is scriptures that I think get avoided by a lot of the mainstream church because they're they're hard to deal with. Sure. And there's a lot of lot of a lot of uh scriptures like that. And I think that's what really draws the challenge because Keith preached about a lot of those verses, and one for me that I've been continually wrestling with because there's this side of God where it's like there's so much grace poured out over lives because we couldn't even follow him if it weren't for his grace. But then there's also these like challenging discipleship verses where one that's always stood out to me in my mind that came to mind when you said that was Hebrews 10, 26. And it says, For if we go on sinning deliberately after we've received the knowledge of the truth, it says there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful expectation of judgment. And then it says, and like a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. And it goes on to talk about, you know, it's like almost like you're trampling over the blood of Jesus Christ. Yeah. And that's something that I think if it was preached, like it would, in a sense, strike some fear into the hearts of people going, Wow, there's a seriousness to the sacrifice that Jesus made.

SPEAKER_00 19:17

Right.

SPEAKER_01 19:17

And if we just see that, we even go, Wow, praise God, you know, you gave your everything for me. And then we just turn immediately back and we're like, but I'm gonna give myself over to the things that put him on the cross that he was trying to get rid of in our lives. That, yeah, that's the verse that came to mind that I just really find is like there's this two-part, you know, to the discipleship walk of God's grace. Yeah. And then it's also part of like this, the fear of the Lord and the challenge that he offers to each one of us. And yeah, I've really found that that there's like a tension almost in God's word that like keeps one pulls you this way and one pulls you this way, and it's all him. But it's just like, yeah, it's been very challenging for me.

SPEAKER_02 19:57

One more question. So there are people listening on today to this podcast, and maybe they're believers, maybe they're kind of used to believe, they're kind of wondering about the faith. There's people who maybe never heard the gospel. People maybe wondering, why would I why would I even consider this? Why would I even consider you know another another conversation about Jesus or even inviting me into my life? What would you say to those people out there?

SPEAKER_01 20:34

Well, well, I think um I think it's actually been a false message that has been proclaimed a lot of times in in churches, which is very sad, that it's almost like, hey, if you give your life to Jesus, all your dreams are gonna come true. Right. And and it's it's done a big disservice. I've even seen like friends and family members in my own life who almost came to Christ in that way, in like an experimental way, of like, oh well, this is like true happiness, and this is gonna last, and this is better than you know, drugs or sex or alcohol or whatever it is. And so they come to Jesus and then they still have problems, and then they still have things go wrong in their life, and they're like, Well, this was a lie, like this wasn't true. But when in reality, you look at like Jesus' own disciples, they were like all killed pretty brutally for their faith and for the things that you know they were saying, and so things didn't go amazingly splendidly all the time for them. They were beaten and all this stuff, and I think there's not a lot of encouragement in that alone. You're like, Well, that's great, sign me up, you know. I want to be beaten and I want to have my life go hard. Yeah. Um, but what I would say is like Jesus says, you know, he says, broad is the way or the road that leads to destruction. He says, and those who enter that way are many, because it's easy. He literally says it's easy to go that way. And then he says, narrow is the way that leads to life, and it's hard.

unknown 22:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:02

And I'm like, wow, how how true is that? Like it's so much easier to just give ourselves over to vice and the things that are we just desire naturally, right? You know, you have to train a child to share and to be kind and and righteous, but it naturally they'll just we'll be selfish. And so I think that's why it's so much easier to go the way of the world, and the way of Christ is harder. But I what I would say is like the draw card is like salvation. Yeah, and and Jesus Christ, it says the promise that he's made to us is eternal life. And so not only will you not find satisfaction ultimately in all the ways of the world, you know, you will find satisfaction in Jesus Christ, but ultimately it leads to life and everything like if God made us, I like to think about it. If God formed us, he knows the way that will function best.

SPEAKER_02 22:53

Right.

SPEAKER_01 22:54

But a lot of times we have our own way or our own idea of what will be best for us, and it leads us actually to destruction. There's a I think it's a proverb that says there's a way that seems right to a man, but it in the end it leads to death. And so it's like just that reality that Christ calls us to himself because he's the way that leads to life, and ultimately, yes, you'll only be satisfied in him. But I think it's I think it is a false promise to say, hey, everything's gonna go great once you become a Christian.

SPEAKER_00 23:23

Right.

SPEAKER_01 23:23

And I think if people were actually warned, no, like this is gonna be very hard, yeah, but it's very worthwhile, and it's the only road that really you know leads to life. You're going, okay, that's that's I can stick on this path for that reason.

SPEAKER_02 23:37

You know, it's like a like it's an adventure. And adventures aren't always easy, right? Right, right. But a destination, we know the destination, but the journey the journey of of excitement of of of surprises, of uh what will God do? Yes, you know, in our lives, because he loves us. Well, Joel, thank you for for being on the on the show today. And uh this is kind of just an introduction of your personal story, and in the in the days to follow, you know, we're gonna interviews interview you again and and say what what is God specifically doing in your life, you know, what's he up to? And again, these are raw stories, both good and bad, are difficult, I should say, because like you just said, the road doesn't have to be it's not gonna be easy, but it I think one of the other young adults said, but it's one of meaning and and deep purpose. So thanks again, bless you, and look forward to talking to you soon.

SPEAKER_01 24:35

Thanks so much for having me.

SPEAKER_02 24:36

And this is Rick Burry Gain, your host on Plyin Leaves, and thank you again for being here. And you take care and God bless.